From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Subject: Re: Israel's Expansion II
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"
Lines: 83

ab4z@Virginia.EDU ("Andi Beyer") writes:

> I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more
> about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you). 

  You really belong to the 25-30% of ignorants in USA who don't know what
  the Holocaust ("Shoa" should be the real word) was. First you write in 

 Message-ID: <1993Apr24.203620.6531@Virginia.EDU>
 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 20:36:20 GMT

>  I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in
>  reporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering
                                                           ^^^^^^^ 

   and later, as somebody informed you about your gross mistake, you
   write in 
   
 Message-ID: <1993Apr25.181351.1373@Virginia.EDU>
 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 18:13:51 GMT

>  First let me correct myself in that it was Goerbels and
                                              ^^^^^^^^
>  not Goering (Airforce) who ran the Nazi propaganda machine.

   instead of Joseph GOEBBELS. And you dare to say that you
   "know more about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including "us")" ? 
   I'm sure you learned the history of Nazi Germany AND Austria from
   your family.  
  
> 	What I resent is ignorant statements that call people
> names when they disagree with your position. Opposing the
> atrocities commited by the Israeli governement hardly qualifies
> as anti-semitism. If you think name calling is a valid form of
> argument in intellectual circles, you need to get out more
> often.
 
  Trying to make comparisons between Israels politics and Nazi German-
  Austrian politics shows only your degree of ignorance (high), intellect
  (low), humanity (none) and antisemitism (average). I respect anybody
  who dissagrees with me as long as he respects me and discusses in a
  civilized manner. I would never say that anybody that critizises Israel
  and/or its politics is an antisemite, except he uses antisemitic
  vocabulary/terminology/demagogy. Israel is not a perfect country and
  its politicians also commits errors, even some of them are corrupt
  (like politicians in any other country), but they carry a huge burden:
  to care for the safety of ALL its citizens, and that is really not an
  easy task in a country that is surrounded by enemies who only expect
  that Israel commits the ONE BIG ERROR and wipe the country (and its
  Jewish citizens plus the so-called collaborators, arabs that wanted to
  live in peace with their Jewish neighbours) of the map. As I said,
  Israel is not a perfect country, but it is the ONLY democracy in the
  whole Middle-East and the only country in the world where Jews from
  everywhere can have a refuge in case of persecutions in the countries
  they are living.
  Our long history has taught us that we cannot rely on non-Jewish
  nations and its governments: as soon as there are more or les big
  social-economical-political problems in any country, the first ones
  that pay for the broken glasses are the Jews, and later the other
  minorities of the country.
  
> I don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
> justifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any
> attempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is
> not appreciated.

  This is really outrageous: 6.000.000 murdered Jews, besides the
  thousands  who survived the Shoa in some way or another, and the rest
  of the living ones mourning for all of them ! I don't know what you
  call a "Civil Libertarian" (never heard about them) but I know only
  one thing: if all of them think like you do it, then "Civil Libertarians"
  is a new denomination for Antisemites. May other Civil Libertarians come
  to word to this group so that we can learn if A.Beyer and me are right
  (that Civil Libertarians are Antisemites), or that I'm wrong and he is
  missusing that word.
  BTW, I couldn't care less for what Andi Beyer appreciates. 
 
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  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
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