From: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM (Michael Parkin) Subject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? Reply-To: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 57 Another issue of importance. Was the crucification the will of God or a tragic mistake. I believe it was a tragic mistake. God's will can never be accomplished through the disbelief of man. Jesus came to this world to build the kingdom of heaven on the earth. He desperately wanted the Jewish people to accept him as the Messiah. If the crucification was the will of God how could Jesus pray that this cup pass from him. Was this out of weakness. NEVER. Many men and women have given their lives for their country or other noble causes. Is Jesus less than these. No he is not. He knew the crucification was NOT the will of GOD. God's will was that the Jewish people accept Jesus as the Messiah and that the kingdom of Heaven be established on the earth with Jesus as it's head. (Just like the Jewish people expected). If this had happened 2000 years ago can you imagine what kind of world we would live in today. It would be a very different world. And that is eactly what GOD wanted. Men and women of that age could have been saved by following the living Messiah while he was on the earth. Jesus could have established a sinless lineage that would have continued his reign after his ascension to the spiritual world to live with GOD. Now the kingdom of heaven on the earth will have to wait for Christ's return. But when he returns will he be recognized and will he find faith on this earth. Isn't it about time for his return. It's been almost 2000 years. Mike In article 28885@athos.rutgers.edu, oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes: In article mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes: >The two historic facts that I think the most important are these: > >(1) If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then he must have done something >else equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact. > >(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the >Jewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so >(it would have discredited the Christians). And the two simplest refutations are these: (1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament. I have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that the recorded "impact" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other contemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain being torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus' resurrection is from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years after the supposed event. (2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no one knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely explanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers). Don't bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one gospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make up in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does record that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really guards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did. -Scott O.